Coming from one of our community's most experienced members, boy bob's thoughtful, articulate, and often humorous letters are a source of useful and timeless information for us all.  The following letters have been compiled from email postings that boy bob sent to our community email lists over the years.  They are loosely organized by topic, and have been edited in very minor ways to correct for spelling or grammar, to remove names of other people, or to enhance topical continuity and clarity.  The bold text in each letter is either the topic of his post or another person's comment/question that he is addressing.

At the end of these letters are links to essays and poetry that boy bob wrote.

Even though boy bob has passed, his desire to help our community lives on through his writings.

Rights Of A Slave - A slave is property and has no rights once owned.

This is a common misconception. Although there is historical evidence in BDSM that slaves at times were treated this way (Read Vi Johnson's book), overall that was not the case.

However, in a headspace context, the statement is very true. A slave does give up its rights once contracted to a Master, and must accept that as a real possibility. If you're not willing to accept the possibility, than by no means should you sign the contract regardless of whether or not the contract has an "escape" clause.

That in essence is also the difference between a submissive and a slave. A slave is a submissive who has found someone they trust without question, love without question, and desire to serve without question. For me, it is the purest, most complete form of love and the purest and most complete way of saying "i love you" to my Sir. He deserves no less. i want to give Him no less.

Any sub at anytime can become a slave, even if they don't think they ever could, or don't think they can offer enough to a Master to deserve it (that's up to the Master to decide, not the sub). All it takes is for the sub to find that special person.

That you may never be required to fully give up all your rights does not make the Master/slave relationship any less "real" or any less "valid". All that is required is an absolute and total commitment to each other. A commitment that means you won't walk away the first time, or even the second, third, hundredth, thousandth time the going gets a little rough. It means the only thing that could end the relationship is something that continually causes the threat or actual physical or mental harm.

It doesn't take a special type person to become a slave. Just one willing to give their all to someone they care very very much about.

bob h
 

Where does consent begin and end in a Total Power Exchange ( TPE) relationship?

It's hard to pinpoint when the consent begins. i think most just slowly realize it over the course of time as the relationship blossoms and grows to a point where both parties are ready to make the ultimate commitment to each other. It is so essential that both parties have complete trust in the other, total respect and absolute love. Without a 100% level of each one of these there will shortly be trouble in paradise.

The formality of the consent begins with the establishment of the contract. That is one of the basic functions of the contract. Once signed, especially in a M/s situation, the theory is that the slave totally and absolutely relinquishes all rights to the control of all aspects of their existence to the Master, including the right to future objections. That is the theory. That is not the reality, it would be nearly impossible for any couple in a committed relationship of any kind to totally agree 100% on every issue that comes up, have only one member making every decision for both and the other mindlessly accepting of those decisions. It's like the popular image of a pre-sixties housewife. Someone who stays home to take care of the house and kids, no outside job or income (not as necessary back then and a very realistic goal). The wife was also popularized as having no thoughts of their own, always following whatever politics the husband instructed them to, being told what their opinion was on every subject of discussion in the world, their only focus being keeping the house sparkling and always be ready to do whatever the husband wanted whenever he wanted it. Such views were taught and fully believed worldwide. It has not been uncommon throughout history where females where taught domestic skills only and boys were taught to run the affairs of the house, country and world and total avoidance of all things associated to house, home and family. But as strong as that image has become obviously it was not practiced absolutely by the majority of any society.

Same with M/s. The theory of the mindless, totally obedient slave is presented in the contract as a method of defining the slaves headspace and commitment just as the Master taking absolute control over the slave's well-being in every aspect of their life is there define the headspace and commitment of the Master. If either feel unwilling to make that type pledge to the other in a contract format, regardless of whether in reality both know such a situation would never exist. The total trust that exists assures both sides that each are 100% concerned about both of their well being, physically, mentally and spiritually and each know that the other would not purposely do them any harm. And while most contracts will specifically state that the Master has the final word on all decisions with no obligation to discuss the decision before or after it's made, the reality is no caring Master would ever expect their slave to blindly accept their every decision. It takes a high level of intelligence and dedication for someone to perform excellent service to a Master 24/7. A mindless robot could never be able to do it and any worthwhile Master would not want anything to do with a slave that has to be told to do everything. That's a playtime only sub, not a lifetime slave.

So, yes i totally believe there must be recognized consent by both parties in a TPE relationship, stated and documented in a contract that has been developed only after there has been honest, open, complete discussion of every point in it and a complete agreement as to exactly what meaning each and every statement actually is meant to represent. Less than total agreement and acceptance can only lead eventually to the breakdown of the relationship. Such a contract can only be executed by two people who have taken the time to learn everything there is to know about each other and discovered their inner desire to spend their lives together. They both can accept the giving or taking of control because of this knowledge and the trust between them that developed as they found that knowledge. It can be entered into by the slave only because they fully know that no decision will ever be made without their input. No decision will be made that could alter or redirect the relationship without it having been fully discussed and agreed to. The consent should be ended immediately by the slave when either party losses their trust in the other, is knowingly betrayed by the other, or attempts are made by the Dom to knowingly inflict physical or mental abuse on the other under it's guise. All contracts, no matter how great the trust, should provide a clause giving the slave the power to request further discussion of any topic or refuse to accept the Dom's decision. The clause should specifically state that discussions held under this provision are done so without any attempt by either to require the other to remain in perfect protocol behavior, as they have defined it, as long as such a discussion continues (time out clause). Every contract should also contain a clause which permits for either party to end the relationship or even just the M/s aspect of it provided the problems causing the split have been fully and honestly discussed, that answers and solutions have been attempted in a commitment to honestly try to resolve the issues and remain together and that a specified period of time be given between announcing the desire to break-off and the actual leaving if that should happen to be the end result. Called the "out" clause, they generally require at least a thirty day period of serious attempts by both to resolve the differences.

The issues, concerns, pitfalls inherent when establishing a M/s type relationship are many, very serious and potentially devastatingly harmful to one or both parties involved. It is not a situation to be taken or entered into lightly although more often than not, in today's DSM community it's seen as no more than just a role-play game, not seen as the seriously intense relationship it is. Often the couples enter into so-called M/s relationships after meeting once, with no discussion, no contract, no real commitment beyond the bedroom that night. Of course, anyone with any lifestyle knowledge can easily pick these type out no matter how much the people involved try to claim being in a total 24/7 M/s relationship.

bob h
 

Slave vs. Submissive - To me a submissive is a general term that implies that the individual feels the need to be controlled in some but not necessarily all aspects of their lives. To me a slave is a general term that implies that the individual feels the need to be controlled in all aspects of life.

Sorry Sir, but i disagree. i have not met any slaves who remained in service for more than a very short time who feel the need to be controlled. In order to serve a Master well a slave must be able to think and care for, not only itself, but also their Master. They must know the Master so well that they know what the Master needs before the Master requests it. They must be able to take care of all that needs taken care of without having to be continually told to or how to do it.  They must be the eyes and ears and at times the mouth of the Master. One who requires to be totally controlled would not be able to do this.

i would tend to reverse the two definitions in that a sub is someone who needs to be told what to do before they do it. A slave will already have it done because they knew it will please the Master.

bob h
 

Slave vs. Submissive - Each of these Women have similiar protocols for subs and slaves, but with some differences. The main differences that i see with these particular Dominants are mainly with safe words and rights. Both Dominants agree that slaves have no safe words, and no rights after signing the contract, whereas a submissive has use of safe words and has the right to negotiate activities.

Personally i think this is pure "fantasy" bull!!!!

What they fail to state that with a slave contract all of the safe-words, rights, expectations, limitations and every other minute aspect of the relationship have already been discussed and defined in great detail and made part of the contract. To present slaves as being mindless, with no rights etc. is pure fantasy and as about as legitimate as the asshole who thinks groping any submissive is ok.

A Master/slave relationship is a very very very difficult type of relationship to maintain. To say that it is purely at the whim of the Dom is ludicrous. Any slave who would put themselves into such a situation obviously has little self-respect and has absolutely no business being in the lifestyle much less a M/s relationship. The other portion of the M/s formula is TRUST. These relationships require the ultimate in trust. Trust that can only come from knowing each other very well and over a period of time. It is not something you jump into after just meeting. So while the fantasy may say no limits, the reality is the trust level is so strong that limits are not needed.

bob h
 

Slave vs. Submissive - A slave is devoted to the betterment of the Master. So, if the slave is in charge of the finances of the household he/she will be bold enough to give respectful feed back if the Master is making foolish choices. It is a more responsible position and therefore has a little more honor than a submissive.

This is pretty standard for Old Guard, but we need to keep one thing in mind when throwing in the "more honor" in today's context. In Old Guard days there were only submissives and slaves, not the many other nuances we see today. The term boy was used as a term of affection for a slave, not a separate category.

Submissives were uncollared. Once collared you became a slave. The slave was considered more honored in that the best way to become collared, was to prove, by showing your desire, need and skill of service, that you were a good submissive.

Anyone wishing to enter the community had to first go through a period of submission. This way, as a Dominant, you were fully aware, and had a complete understanding of the wonderful gift given in submission. A practice much in need today.

It's good to see that most have given pretty much the same general definitions but with a few different twists and qualifications.

Perhaps by using the definitions supplied by Master Brian as a basis and making a few modifications we can come up with some good general working definitions:

submissive - a general term that implies that the individual feels the need and desire to at times be singularly focused in some but not necessarily all aspects of their lives.

slave - a general term that implies that the individual has the need and desires to be singularly focused in all aspects of their lives.

Now how about the difference between a Leather Top, Dominant and Master?

bob h
 

Slave vs. Submissive - The label applied was not pertinent to the behavior expected. slave, boy, sub, pet, whatever, we were taught that this body was simply an extension of the masters body and will. And like His arm or leg, unsolicited motion was not appreciated or tolerated any more than a wild twitch would be. If the Master wanted something, he would order it so and instant obedience was expected, just as it would be from his own attached hand. The ultimate determiner of initiative was the Master's presence or absence. In His presence, He was the focus of all attention, and every nuance of His actions was to be observed close at hand. In His absence, service was to be looked for and provided in whatever way that the sub could imagine might please his Master.

Actually this is not in contradiction to the basic characterization i gave at all. In fact what you present as the expected behavior of a slave is exactly the same as what Sir trained and expects out of me. Even when were not physically together for the portion of the week i am at my home in Raleigh, my focus is still on getting my professional work finished in time so that i can return to Atlanta and Sir as early as possible.

You are correct in the changes regarding submissives in general though. In the early days, being a submissive was basically the training grounds for being a slave so their behavior was very similar, just not dedicated to one Master. Today that link doesn't necessarily exist so the term submissive has become somewhat expanded to include those who are capable of providing the degree of service and the expected behavior associated with a slave, but for whatever reason, do not necessarily have the desire or expectation of becoming a slave. Besides being expanded the term has also come to be associated with those who only consider submissive behavior to be a type of role play associated with a play scene. They are the types that think submissive behavior means that they act like they have no brain at all and have to be told everything including when to breathe.

Perhaps it would be less confusing if we made a new category for those types and just called them play bottoms.

bob h
 

Punishment - As far as expecting to be punished in order that I might be made better or that I am somehow a flawed person is absurd. Why would anyone want to have someone who is flawed and in need of being made "better"? Why would a Dominant take on a submissive with whom they were not compatible on all levels? What good does "punishing" an adult actually do?

i totally agree with this. Unfortunately, there are subs i know who although they are in the thirties by chronological age, still behave like immature children. They have never had to grow up because usually there was always someone there willing to clean up after them, or take care of things when they got themselves into any sort of trouble or difficulty.

Even then if they have been chosen by someone to be their submissive and the Dom knows in advance that they are immature and accepts that, then the sub should not be "punished" once in service in order to try to change them. However, if they have gone under collar in a training situation in the hopes of changing themselves, sometimes "punishment"" is the only thing they know how to respond to and may be necessary in order for them to learn. But other than that, if a submissive continually requires punishment they need to get out of the bdsm lifestyle and learn to be a mature adult. As i've said a million times, this lifestyle, and especially being a submissive in this lifestyle requires that you know and are comfortable with yourself before you can ever fulfill the requirements of serving another as a submissive.

i also think that any Dominant who thinks that harsh punishment is appropriate behavior every time a submissive makes a mistake, no matter how small, needs to put down his whips and learn about human relationships vs abusive relationships before trying to Dominant another again.

bob h
 

Punishment by Proxy - Using one submissive to punish another

First we must remember that "punishment" to most subs is a good thing since the word is usually used in the context that it refers merely to normal play session, which of course, something ALWAYS to look forward to :-).....

The other thing to remember is that "bad behavior is never rewarded" as Sir so loves to say. Therefore, punishment means that something is denied, such as play, or that what is done is something that will not be pleasant or done in such a way to be misconstrued by the sub as a play session.

Punishment by proxy can be a way of having a bit of good fun between two submissives especially when using "punishment in the play sense and not being done with any kind of anger reaction between the two subs. Something like a playful "get even" situation where one sub has done something as a joke to embarrass the other so the Master allows the second sub to due "something back" in an enjoyable way for both subs. In other words a fun role play session.

Actual "punishment" for inappropriate behavior i don't feel should be delegated. To easy to cause hard feelings between the subs that would be more harmful than good especially if the punishment being administered was because of something the sub being punished did to the sub doing the punishment. Things could get out of hand very quickly and resentment built not only between the subs but also between the sub being punished and the Master.

bob h
 

Negative Headspace - I sometimes get really angry when I'm playing with my Master. He seems to enjoy it, but i'm wondering if this is ok. 

Anger is just one of the many ways a submissive can react during play. It is not an unusual response so you need not worry that it is something wrong or inappropriate. i know several Dominants who enjoy that type response. Obviously your Master is very sensitive and accepting of your reactions which is always very important.

Every submissive reaches that wonderful high in their own unique way. For a long time i thought something was wrong with me because i never experienced that "out of body" sensation - where the sub goes off into some never-never land at the first stroke - even during some very heavy scenes. i prefer to feel each stroke and push myself to accept as much as the Dominant wants to give. it's like lifting weights. i want to feel my body working and straining, a totally physical experience. It's after the scene ends that i release and let the endorphins flow - then it's goodbye world.

Sir likes the fact that i don't zone out during play. For Him we are going on a trip together and He reads body reactions as the way of knowing exactly where i am at. He equates flogging someone who zones out and just stands there as being the same as flogging a wall. Watching how i reacted during play sessions with others before W/we got together was one of the things that attract Him to me.

So relax.  That both your Master and you are enjoying the scenes is all that is important.

bob h
 

Humiliation Scenes

Most humiliation scenes i have heard of or been involved in have to do with a role play scenario such as a "kidnapping". Under these kinds of circumstances it can be a very fun scene if proper precautions are taken and it is usually something you do only with someone who you know and trust and have played with before. It is important to fully discuss limits before hand and especially important to set up safe words as it is possible to drag up something hidden deep in the subs mind that even they are not aware of but could bring back very bitter memories. It is also important to remember "it's only a game"..don't take anything said or done seriously and don't give it out seriously.

i have also known humiliation to be used as a punishment. This aspect of it i do not agree at all with.

bob h
 

What is a cigar party? I believe someone else asked that, and I never saw a response to her question.

The cigar party is an all male event for guys who like to use cigars, for whatever purpose, as part of a play scene This is a " no holes barred" event (anything goes), watersports included. Sort of like...

Deck the boy with cigar ashes ----fa la la la la, la la la la.... Wipe him off with forty lashes ----- fa la la la la, la la la la.....

Naked boy butts make good ash trays---- fa la la, la la la, la, la, la ----- A Golden shower and then some more play ---fa la la la la---la la--la-- la----

or

jingle balls, jingle balls how it makes boy zoom to have Sir take His riding crop and smack them round the room ----

(the sad result of putting up too many Christmas decorations--) 

bob h.
 

This isn't a club with one set of rules. This is thousands, maybe millions of couples, each with their own rules.

And therein lies the problem!!

Diversity is great, both in the types of people entering the lifestyle and the way they approach it. And while there is no "one set of rules", it does help to know the BASICS of what this lifestyle is, where it came from, and where it's going.

There are also BASIC rules of common sense in dealing and approaching people in public settings. Those of us who prefer that the BASIC rules of public and dungeon protocols established by those who LIVED, vs PLAYED AT, this lifestyle, and those of us who prefer that BASIC common courtesies be followed do so because it makes it more comfortable for EVERYONE who wishes to join the lifestyle do so. There are numerous levels of involvement in this lifestyle. Pick the one most comfortable for you but don't insist everyone else fall or rise to your level.

It doesn't matter what personal rules you follow in your personal relationship, or whether you follow any rules at all. But it does matter that you know something of the history and traditions and it does matter that you learn to recognize those who still follow those traditions and RESPECT their right to do so.

Simple common courtesies that you would follow at any social function that included people you do not know is all that is asked. If a particular couple requests that you approach them in a specific manner, and why they request it, them common courtesy would expect you to do so in future contacts.

If you are going to follow a specific set of "rules" ie protocols in your relationship, then be respectful of others and let them know what they are before blasting them for not using them, especially if they could not possibly have any idea what they are.

In a dungeon setting, again common courtesy. Don't interrupt a scene. Don't try to involve yourself in a scene. NO LOUD TALKING. Take your socializing to those areas set up for that, not the play space.

Would you go into a traditional Oriental household wearing hard soled shoes and purposely walk so that you made excessive noise with every step just because you don't want to follow their tradition of taking off their shoes before entering the house? Hopefully not. Most would agree that it would be very rude to do so. Same goes for the traditions of this lifestyle.

bob h
 

One thing that immediately struck me was your anger in people who see the lifestyle as being nothing more then kinky foreplay.

Actually what makes me angry is not that they just consider it a type of foreplay but that they don't have the respect for others to realize that for many of us it means a lot more. It is their behavior in public play situations that makes me mad, not that they are there. i'm probably a lot more sensitive to that than most, maybe because the space itself has such deep meaning to me because of the cherished moments Sir and i have shared there.

Your absolutely right in that everybody has to start somewhere. i also thought it was basically kinky sex when i first got involved. There were even a couple areas of play that Sir put in our contract at my request, that we would never do. Now they are some of our favorite types of play. All because we had the opportunity to see someone else play in that area and the beauty of the scenes changed my view of it from being to intense to being able to see the unique form of communication and joining it provided.

And, as i mentioned in the original post, just when things get to the ultimate frustration point, along comes that person who just had that incredible scene that made them see how much more this lifestyle has to offer. Not everybody is going to get there and that's fine. And i certainly don't want to exclude them because they don't, as you never know, even if they aren't looking for it, or even believe there is more, that they won't be the next one to be surprised at finding it.

bob h
 

Body Shaving

Body shaving was typical in Old Guard slaves but as with everything else, tailored to meet individual circumstances and preferences. At the very least it was generally performed, and still is generally used, as a part of or in preparation for a formal collaring ceremony. It is performed as a reminder to the slave that they, and the service they provide, are things of natural beauty not to be hidden. It also represented the boy's rebirth into the world as a slave, the shaving being for the purposes of returning the body to it's original state of natural birth. It was not performed for purposes of degrading, humiliation or making them feel immature. Those type shavings were often done, and still are, as part of role-play meant to produce a fun headspace not for abuse.

bob h
 

Abuse vs. BDSM

i personally feel that it is of the utmost importance, that we, as a community, come to some decision or agreement, as to how we, again as a community, wish to present our lifestyle, to make it understood that SM is not about abuse, is not just about inflicting or accepting extremely intense levels of pain, and comes in a variety of types and styles from which to pick and choose. Can we reach agreement on how to define "safe" when speaking in terms of SSC? Does SSC really say enough? Would RACK be better or is it to ambiguous? Is there something that is better than either SSC or RACK? How do we help those who are searching to fill some undefined void in their life and come to us in hopes that this will be what it is that fills it? How do we introduce the potentials of this lifestyle to that searching person without limiting the potentials of those already here?

bob h
 

RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink) vs SSC (Safe, Sane, and Consensual)

If using RACK instead of SSC could be guaranteed to prevent us from becoming mainstream, then i'm all for starting it's use immediately!!! Only kidding.... (sort of). i would rather see us as a community work together to build our own solidarity in our diversity before going helter skelter out into the general public. Together we could make an impact. Separately, we just look like fools.

SSC has gotten so bogged down with different factions of the community arguing among themselves as the "true" meaning of what safe is, and what constitutes sane (one drink, two drinks, three joints - like the old prune commercial is one enough is two too many..). Even consensual, which seems pretty black and white, causes discussions.

With RACK the emphasis goes back to the individual and their responsibility to learn. The chances on everyone will take that responsibility obviously is slim. But just like SSC, there will never be 100% agreement on the definition of terms or 100% compliance by everyone in the community to at least one of the definition possibilities.

Consider "bare backing" that is becoming popular. Totally unsafe (when safe refers to safe sex, the original SSC definition), totally not sane (knowingly risking a life threatening disease because you don't like condemns and some idiots think AIDs has actually been cured because the drugs work better now) and it is not consensual as those who like bare backing don't feel any responsibility to tell their trick if they are positive or negative, the other person doesn't get the opportunity to refuse.

To me the biggest advantage of using RACK is that it would focus the community towards emphasizing education more, and it be harder to label the heavier players in the community as "Unsafe" by someone who thinks anyone who plays with more intensity than they do, no matter how educated or skilled and acknowledge by the community as expert players, is unsafe.

We have lost too many experienced players, including here in Atlanta, players who are wonderful educators, with long histories of a willingness and desire to share the information they have gained over years of practice, because there are too many new people coming in to the public play spaces and crying unsafe every time they turn around. The more experienced players get tired or constantly fighting off rumors and remain at home and the community loses a great resource

bob h
 

Newcomers To The Lifestyle

We ALL have a personal responsibility to help newcomers. So often i see people bring new comers to a dungeon play party, and instead of staying with them and helping them take it all in, they go off to start playing and leave their guests at the mercy of the dungeon, expecting somebody else to take care of them for them. Don't work that way folks.

Another good way to introduce someone to the dungeon is let them see it when there isn't anything going on. The Sanctuary is open for free tours of the facility most anytime everyday, including during some events. The tour can be a quick and simple or as long and involved as you need it to be and we are always more than happy to spend time discussing questions, concerns, curiosities, whatever. While it is rare that someone is not home, it is best to call ahead so we know your coming or give a better time to come if their is a private rental or something going on that would prevent you from getting to see the entire space. It also gives us time to get the lighting, music etc set so you can experience some of the atmosphere as well as just see equipment. i expect PEP house also can schedule a tour time as well.

bob h
 

Meeting Someone Safely

Sir has been preaching about Safe Calls for several years and The Sanctuary has had an established policy of offering those services for the past five years.

Besides safe calls don't forget the importance of:

1. Doing everything you can to check out the person you are meeting. 
2. Ask for personal identification information including address and phone number. 
3. Establish a meeting place that is public. 
4. Preferably have the first several play sessions be in public forums if possible. 
5. NEVER allow yourself to be placed in bondage on the first play date.

It's sad that it takes a tragedy such as the Kansas murders to shake up people enough that they seriously start thinking about their safety, and using the practical steps such as safe calls, when meeting people over the Internet. It's easy to think that such things only happen to "the other guy". Bet those ladies thought the same thing!

bob h
 

Safe Calls - I haven't heard of this. I have a feeling I know how this functions, but could someone please provide more information as to the particulars of this?

The Sanctuary, especially Master Doug, has been offering this service for the past several years and we are always available for anyone who wishes to use it.

Basically the idea is that if you are meeting someone for the first time, especially someone met on-line, we highly encourage you to get all of the factual information about the person before you meet. Such things as their actual, legal name, address, phone number, work and work phone number, drivers license number or preferably a copy of the license itself with picture. Getting a copy will also verify their home address, name etc. Inform the person of the safe call situation and that you will need to make a call when you meet to inform whoever the safe call is set with that the person has arrived, where you plan to go prior to going to play and where and approximately what time you plan on going for play. We also highly suggest that you go to a public place, restaurant, bar etc. to talk, negotiate the evenings plans etc. before going somewhere to play. That way if something doesn't seem right you have the opportunity to call things off and leave. We also highly suggest that you go to a public play space for the first encounter or so instead of your home or a hotel. Once you arrive at the place for play call again to let the person know you have arrived at the destination point and confirm where that place is. Also set a time during or after the play session to call them back to let them know that all is well. Make sure an exact time for the call-back is set. Also inform the person you are meeting that unless the call is made, your safe call person will inform the police to have them check out the situation. Make sure you safe call person is willing to contact authorities in such a situation or the whole thing is worthless. The person you are meeting may be counting on you bluffing. Finally set a final time to call when the session is over and they have left or you are on your way home. If you decide to spend the night together call your safe-call person and inform them of that and set a time the next day to call back. Continue to set call back times until the person has left to return home.

Before you start anything with the person you are meeting make sure that they are very clear about the call requirements and that they are willing to let you make the calls even if it means interrupting the play scene. Any Dom or sub with any real knowledge of the lifestyle will be more than willing to provide any of the information requested and will also appreciate the fact that you have been careful enough as well to set the safe call process up. This is also a protection for them. It is also advisable to have them talk to the safe call person to verify the situation early on in the process, such as when they first arrive. This will assure them that the safe call is for real. 

Again if the person you are meeting refuses any of the steps - Do Not Continue Or Meet Them In The First Place.

Sir has performed this service many times for various people and it has always had very good results. No Dom has ever refused to provide the requested information beforehand or balked at allowing the various calls throughout the evening be made. All have been very appreciative that the call system had been set up as, like i mentioned, it provides protection for them as well (in case your the crazed one :-) ).

Please do not hesitate to request this service at any time. We are more than willing to provide it for you.

bob h
 

Finding a Mentor

When you see or hear of someone who possesses the knowledge, skill, honor and trust that you are looking for, seek them out. Present yourself to them with your request. Don't expect them to come to you. It may happen that in the course of a conversation you make mention of your desire for a mentor in which case they may suggest an interest or give you some clue that they might be interested and willing, but be suspicious if they suggest right away that they are ready whenever you are.

Finding a personal mentor is harder as those who are most capable often will watch and see for a while to make sure a person is really serious. Often, in our rush to learn, you accept someone's offer to be your mentor only to find out they are just using you. Choose carefully. Don't just give that responsibility to just anyone who seems willing. Check them out first. Find out who they are. What they stand for. Negotiate to ensure that you are taught what it is you want to learn as well as what they want to teach you. Finding a mentor is a serious undertaking that could very well make the difference between you finding the endless joys possible in this lifestyle or the extreme hurts, psychologically as well as physically

bob h
 

Dungeon First Timers

A couple of the new visitors have posted about having to get over being scared to walk into a dungeon for the first time. i'm sure just about all of us can relate to that. But once you do, WOW!. And that is part of the absolute beauty of the lifestyle. The initial discovery. But it must be done at everyone's individual pace and individual way. Sooner or later it will happen, but not until the person is ready.

i also firmly believe that having to overcome that initial fear makes the trip all that more worthwhile, something unforgettable. it also means that the person has some knowledge, no matter how little, or what goes on inside those walls. It means that they sense in themselves the need to learn more about it, to be there, to enjoy. It means that they have done some research into the lifestyle before they got there. They WANT to be there and have finally given into that want.

How they react once inside is also individual. Some want to quietly sit back and take it all in. Don't want to be approached, not right at the start. They will make their move when they are ready. Others may have a more outgoing personality naturally, and want to meet people the minute they walk in just like they would at anything they go to for the first time. We must allow that to happen, not force it on them. Even today, if i walked into an unfamiliar play space i would not want to be rushed by someone who's function for the evening is to watch for new faces and drag them around, introducing them to everybody so all knew who the "newbie" of the night was. Talk about running screaming into the night!!!! Wearing a different color name tag or anything like that would definitely make me yell RED!!!!

We hear those same comments from many of the new visitors to The Sanctuary. They want to feel the place, the atmosphere. Take in the people and the things they are doing. Savor the moment of their triumph of walking up the steps and through the front door. Doesn't matter how many of those stories i hear. They give me chills every time.

The SSC/RACK discussion was just that, a discussion. Very informal, very friendly attitudes and lots of good comments and information. Perhaps the answer lies in the explanation that RACK isn't to replace the word "Safe" in SSC, isn't meant to broaden the idea of what is "Safe" into a vast generality that can never be pinned down, but that it actually defines "Safe" as being a concept where the participants involved in a particular play scene have studied that play to know and understand the "Risks" involved, are "Aware" of the cause and effect associated with that risk, are "Competent" in their knowledge of the skill levels necessary and in their possession of those skills and based on their study, practice and skill, have mutually agreed to participate in that particular "Kink". It very neatly involves the concepts of research, learning, training and individuality which must be included in any definition or explanation of what we are referring to by the term "Safe".

There is NOTHING WRONG in the way this community reaches out, warm and welcoming, to anyone who approaches us. There is NOTHING WRONG in how play is monitored at any of the functions held in this community. If there is a failure, it rests on the individual who feels we have failed, not on our community. It is their problem, not ours.

HOWEVER----that does not mean we can't still do better. That does not mean that might be additional avenues to open. But the emphasis must be on preparing them to understand us, not preparing us to understand them. We are already here, as were the many who were here before us, who lead us, taught us and instilled their history in us. We have the duty and responsibility to pass that on to those who follow us just as it was passed on to us by those we followed. Not by force feeding, not by handing them all the answers on a silver platter. They must earn it just as we did. To do otherwise would be doing them a disservice for they will not have the joy of discovery, the feeling of accomplishment, the realization of how they have grown, the pride of being part of this lifestyle. Would you want someone to take away your memories and the emotions associated with them of your growth in this lifestyle? How can we dare to possibly take that away from even one new member.

There is plenty of room for all of us. There is always the choice of taking what you want of what we offer and leaving the rest. We do not ask anyone to conform to one set of rules, reach for the absolutely highest level of play intensity or involve themselves in every type of the available play venues. Do not ask us then to restrict ourselves for their comfort. For if they don't know what might exist, how will they ever make their choice of going for it or not? Special times in addition to what already is, most definitely. As replacement of, absolutely not!

bob h
 

Complaints About Our Play Spaces

You know guys, it's real easy to sit back and complain. With as large as our area community has gotten, and the diversity of the members, not only in terms of this lifestyle but society in general, there is no way to please everybody all the time. But as impossible as it may be, no one tries harder, gives unselfishly of themselves more, or cares about this community and it's members, than Lady D.

Sir and i were out of town this past weekend and i have not gone back and looked at all the posts to this list during the time we were gone so i don't know who started the thread on PEP. So please don't construe this as being aimed at anyone in particular or to anyone who has else who has gotten involved.

It is not easy to provide a space, public or private, that can fully accommodate everyone, every fetish, every intensity of play. There is way too much diversity in each of those areas to make that possible. You do the best you can with the space, equipment, funds, personal time and energy that you can. But no matter how hard you try there will always be somebody ready to complain. You all take for granted that the PEP House and The Sanctuary will be there when you want it to be. Ready for you to walk in, make use of it, and when finished walk away. It doesn't seem to matter that you dripped wax all over the floor or furniture, it's not yours. It doesn't matter that a piece of rope of safety clip that was there for your and everyone's convenience got mixed up with your personal toys and left with you and is now not available for the next person. It doesn't matter that when you find that piece of rope or clip that instead of thinking to return it the next time you come it becomes a permanent addition to your toy bag, besides what's one little piece of rope? And you take it for granted that the next time you decide to come that everything will set, waiting for your arrival, stocked with the all the extras that are needed to keep the environment clean and ready for the next person and with an abundance of peripheral play items such as fire play supplies, paraffin pots and ropes etc, etc, etc that are provided free for your use because we know they are things that are not commonly in personal toy bags but can be a nice addition to a scene.

You take all this for granted without thinking about the expense that goes into providing those supplies (when was the last time anyone offered to replace the pot full of paraffin they used). You don't think about the time somebody has to spend scrapping the wax up off the floor so nobody slips on it, falls and gets hurt. You don't care that the name tag you just stuck on a chair instead walking two steps to a garbage can is going to cause someone else a lot of extra time and energy to remove without leaving it sticky from the adhesive. But let their be one time when everything doesn't work out just for you. When something you want to use isn't available because it's already being used or was left in a mess by the last ones to use it and the complaints start. And heaven forbid if your asked to help ensure that the doors will still be open next time you come by asking you to pay a little more to cover the ever increasing costs for gas, electricity, rent, supplies of additional equipment so you don't have to wait as long to use what is already there. You expect the rooms to be at your perfect temperature all year long but resent being asked to pay a little more to help pay the bills to provide it.

It's hard enough for Lady D, krystan and C, or Master Doug, myself and the Staff, and the few who care enough to consistently give of their time by volunteering to help us is providing a pleasant, safe, atmosphere for the rest of you to enjoy. It's hard to bust our butts week after week after week, to keep squeezing every penny to keep the place stocked with supplies and pay the bills, and hopefully have enough left to be able to buy groceries that week, without having extra cleaning or expenses because somebody didn't have the common courtesy to clean up their own mess, somehow punched a hole in a wall or poked a hole in the covering of a chair or piece of equipment with a stiletto heel or burned it with a cigarette. Not to mention the frustration of after having watched everyone else enjoying themselves, and thinking that perhaps as the night wears on and there is only a few left who we know are capable players who don't require someone to help them find something they want to use or be checked on by the DM , or perhaps after the last have left that we might enjoy the space ourselves, but then wind up being too tired to play when were finally finished getting just the basics cleaned up.

But what really hurts is after all the effort, instead of having the courtesy to mention a problem that might have happened to either Lady D or Master Doug, someone posts their complaint on one, or more usually, both of the lists, somebody else decides to add something that they want changed for their benefit, a big discussion begins, petty problems become huge inadequacies and it becomes Lady D's or Master Doug's personal failing that the rest of the community can't be bothered to help guide newcomers or that some people are just plain rude and can't be bothered by extending a bit of common social courtesy.

i guess though, we should be grateful that at least the complaint was aired publicly on the list instead of being whispered around the community or that it wasn't another of the outlandish rumors or lies that continually pop up and spread like wildfire through the community, taken as fact no matter how ridicules, without anyone coming to any of us to find out what the truth really is.

Neither Lady D, Master Doug or anyone else who gives their all to provide you with a place to play does it for any personal glory or accolades. None of us try to provide opportunities for the community to come together, share experiences and learn from each other because we wanting to be heros of the community or become rich at the communities expense. We don't open our doors to local clubs, groups or organizations providing venues for their various events that might help them attract larger crowds making the event a bigger financial success for them just to give us an opportunity to promote the spaces in the hopes that if those attending ever happen to be back in Atlanta they will make a point of coming to one of our regular events so we make more money, we do it because we want that club, group or organization to be successful because each of them provides their own special asset to our community. Yet those are all things we get accused of. Yet those same accusers are the first ones to run to Lady D or Master Doug at all times of the day or night, seven days a week, whenever they have a personal problem and need help or advice, those clubs and groups are the first ones to come with their hands out wanting them to buy sponsorships for an event, prizes for a contest or donations for an auction and still provide the dungeons for their runs at a price that barely covers or is less than what it costs just to run the electricity to have the place open for them. And it happens again, and again, and again.

How many times does this make that either one or the other of the spaces has been attacked on this list in just the past year? Each time we make the same request. If there is something you perceive as a problem talk to us not the list. If you hear a crazy rumor, ask us what it's about instead of spreading it further. You want to know why we need to raise the rates for admission come ask we'll show you exactly why.

We are here because we want to provide you the opportunity to enjoy this lifestyle to the fullest. We are here so that you don't have to meet in motel rooms, or can play with someone you just meet in a space where you can feel safe. Look around. How many communities can provide that. How many communities have places available every single week of the year that anyone is welcome to use. Not many. You have two. Today. How will you feel if they are not there tomorrow?

We know things aren't perfect. We know there are problems and we do our best to solve them. There is more we wish we could do. Provide more educational opportunities, a wider variety of events so the various aspects of the community could have events that more fully fill their specific play needs, more pieces of equipment and of every conceivable type. But it can't be done if you as individuals and you as a part of the community don't support us and don't work with us to improve problem situations.

i apologize for using this space to vent my frustrations and for aiming at the community as a whole comments and criticisms that much of the community, thankfully, do not deserve as there are a great many in this community who continually and consistently do all they can to show their support and appreciation to both PEP and The Sanctuary. i'm sure Lady D and her crew join me in expressing our deepest gratitude to those who do.

i also apologize if my comments offended or angered any of you who have been voicing concerns as i am sure that the overwhelming majority of the comments were not intended to be vindictive but constructive. Just as my comments were meant to be taken in general and as i mentioned in the beginning were not directed, and i sincerely hope not taken, as a personal attack against anyone.

To some of you it may seem out of place for me to make these comments in response to postings which are directed at situations at PEP and not specifically involving The Sanctuary. However, while this time it was PEP, the same sort of comments and methods of communication can at any time be aimed at either. That it continues to happen at either place is a continuing frustration.

i, and Sir as well, have the upmost respect and admiration for Lady D, krystan and C. They have worked hard, consistently and continually for many years. Their efforts have been, and continue to be, a major part of what makes our community one of the most progressive, open, knowledgeable communities that you will find anywhere. Lady D's dedication to improving our community in it's acceptance of all people, Her commitment to education and the depth of Her caring are unsurpassed by anyone. Our community owes Her a huge debt of gratitude, not blind-sided criticism.

bob h
 

Much of what we see as modern bdsm and there is much more to it than "Old Guard" has anyone forgotten Gor? (Which is far different than "Old Guard") is based on concepts very unique and varied. Also there is so called European Classical which in it's own rights emulates something far older than the Old Guard.

The various types of protocols which have been the basis of today's BDSM were very much real, not myth, and are still very much in evidence today if you know what you're looking for.

The "Old Guard" is talked about most often because it is seen as having been more organized and structured. It was not. Various regions had various differences in how they organized and ran their individual communities but the basics were all the same.

At the same time that Old Guard - which has been defined as anything prior to the current generation of the time - was getting going in the 40's, SM -there was no BD - was already strong in Europe, thus the Victorian, practiced fully by The Duchess, and European styles were very established there with some following in the US. As SM became more in vogue during the sexual revolution of the 60's & 70's something called Het Guard starting evolving centered mainly on the European styles but also incorporating much of what was practiced by the gay male culture. The gay Old Guard has become more popularized because much of what was written about SM after the 60's started in the gay magazines so naturally it was the gay culture that was written about.

Vi Johnson does a great presentation - did it last weekend at LOCK in Greenville- on the history of SM in the US. We will see about getting her here to do it. One of the things she says is that when she and Jill Carter entered the scene, they were considered the rogue upstarts, and that Tony Deblase often cited that when he entered the scene he was considered the rogue upstart, what was established when they entered was what we call Old Guard, they were known then by the upstarts as the Old Farts.

Regardless of what protocols started what, the basics of all the original protocols, sorry don't include GOR or the others in that category- were the same. They were built on HONOR, TRUST, MUTUAL RESPECT and EDUCATION. They WERE NOT SEXUAL in nature but SERVICE oriented. We need desperately to get back to these roots!

bob h
 

Dom Wannabees

May I ask everyone why some Doms/Dommes seem to have no idea what proper protocols are? For example at PEP last weekend I was literally knocked over by one Dom trying to get to my submissive. He also stepped on a Domme friend of mine."

Personally i think referring to these types as Doms is an insult to those who really are. Not sure what exactly to call them. There's nothing i can think of that i have so little respect for that i would insult it by association ;-).

Unfortunately these types of problems have been with us for a while now and show little sign of improving. But it is all of our's responsibility to let people like this know that their behavior is not acceptable. Until all of us take a stand, not wait for someone else to do it, these problems will continue.

To the other submissives out there, your responsibility is just as great if not greater. If we refuse to have anything to do with obnoxious, untrained dom wannabees, sooner or later they will either have to learn what it's all about or they will leave and crawl back under whatever rock they crawled out from under. A dom is not a dom if there is no one who will let them dom them. Think about it.

bob h
 

Stagnation

That among some of the long term members of the community, the feeling that their personal play and their personal needs and personal pleasure derived from being part of this lifestyle are becoming stagnated is very real, with much of that feeling being the result that they no longer wish to join in public play situations because there are too many uneducated players in the community who fail to take advantage of the numerous opportunities present to learn about anything other than the very basic forms and level of play and who are much too prone to term anything beyond their limited knowledge as unsafe and those who use them as unsafe players.

This is a real situation and one that has happened much to often. Too many excellent, highly skilled, highly educated and without a question among the safest players you will find anywhere have had their reputations tarnished because some uneducated fool didn't take the time to ask about what they thought they were witnessing, went out to the general community calling someone unsafe. Too many of the most excellent teachers anywhere are no longer available or willing to risk and put up with the scrutiny they receive, the rumor mills that churn and the overall aggravation of constantly defending themselves. One can only learn about different areas, different styles and different levels of play by seeing it being done. How are you going to know what else might exist in this lifestyle for you if you don't see it to know it even exists? Because those who have felt it necessary to shy away from public situations don't get that interaction as they used to, they do not have that opportunity to learn something new themselves, and there is always something new to learn, thus the feeling of becoming stagnant.

It is selfish that those who have for years enjoyed this lifestyle as they know and are now be denied that enjoyment because somebody with less time and knowledge in the lifestyle is too likely to term them unsafe want a time available to them where they can enjoy the lifestyle again as well? i certainly do not think so.

Is it fair to say to them that the style of play they enjoy is not acceptable and they should no longer do it? How would you feel if someone came into our community tomorrow and told you that your favorite form of play was not what they felt should be allowed to happen in a public play space. How would you feel if the next generation of the community decided that they didn't think any form of bondage or flogging was safe and shouldn't be done and went around calling you unsafe because you happened to do one of those things at a play party one night? Would it be selfish then for you to want to have a time when those types of play could be done without someone complaining? That's all that many in our community, besides just the longer term members, are asking for. How is this being selfish?

It is selfish that after many years of service to this community, service performed in a large number of ways, service that has had to increase as others have been driven away, that they should want and hope for others in this community to step forward and take some of the responsibility they have to give back to this community some of that which they have received? Absolutely NOT!! What's selfish is to continually demand more from them and then complain about how they do it or that it's still not enough. Is it selfish that they would like to have some time to enjoy this lifestyle for themselves?

What i did hear them talk about was the general lack of common courtesy found today not only within our community but within society in general today. Common courtesies that call for mutual respect and accepting the differences among us, the courtesies that were basic to our society, much less our lifestyle, and tossed away during the "me" generations of the 80's and 90's. To feel a very definite need to reincorporate such courtesy back into society in general, to want to share with friends a time to relax and enjoy their time in the dungeon space should be something we OWE them, not something we criticize them for wanting. That they should hope that instead of making the more skilled and educated put aside what they know to meet the simplest level of skill and knowledge, the lowest common denominator instead of wanting to see the standard raised from that lowest denominator to being the highest denominator with an emphasis on teaching those who want to learn how to reach that highest level should be applauded not condemned. That they feel that it is the responsibility of EVERYONE in this community to do their part in making it enjoyable for all those who wish to join should be something that is taken for granted.

These are the words, the hopes, dreams and desires expressed. There was no call for anything in this community to be one way or the other. Just the request that all of us, including them, be given the opportunity to express their sexuality, their being, to fill their needs and desires that brought each of us here in the first place. Expressed was the hope that we did not compartmentalize ourselves to the extent that we could not see how similar we are also.

That those who come in the future, as well as those already here would continue to have access to the knowledge they need to grow to their highest potential whatever that potential be, that we all can feel comfortable being who we are, express ourselves in the forms of play that we enjoy most and at the level we enjoy most, no matter what that form or level might be. That we learn to respect ourselves, each other and our community.

bob h
 

Why were those girls in protocol not allowed to speak?

Very briefly, in most, if not all established styles of SM protocols, a submissive in service to a Dominant and they in a public SM forum, proper submissive behavior is not to speak unless directed so by their Dom. Another Dom NEVER under any circumstance should approach a submissive in service without first approaching the Dom and asking permission. The Dom will then either decide to allow or disallow any interaction and also whether to allow or disallow the sub to speak in reply. Doms can always approach and speak to other Doms, subs can always approach and speak to other subs, even when in service, but should be considerate not to be disruptive in any way, subs typically do not approach Doms and just begin speaking, they will stand in the Doms sight periphery until recognized and given permission by the Dom to approach.

Reasons why. ..... Part is protection for the sub from being unwantedly approached by other Doms. The no speak rule is generally used more during initial training phases and used as one of many methods in helping the person learn and understand the specific nuances of submissive head space. One very important aspect not very often realized or noted is that by not being able to engage in casual conversation at will, it allows the submissive to perform all the aspects of being in service much more efficiently. A good sub will be their to hold drinks, light cigarettes and other small measures of service. An excellent sub will be constantly watching, directing the Dom as to who in the room is present that the Dom either expressed a desire to see or needs to see for what ever reason. They will also pay attention so that no one monopolizes their Dom's time, politely breaking in with an excuse for the Dom to move on plus many other little nuances that separate a "play with me " subbie for a night from a full-time, lifestyle oriented submissive.

bob h
 

Respecting Our Traditions

Just as food for thought. Not really wanting or expecting a lengthy or heated on line discussion. Just something to think about.

Let's say a person came to an organized group that is based on some long standing tradition, way of thinking or religious belief, and told them that they were interested in being a part of that group but not because they necessarily agreed or believed any of the basic traditions of thoughts they group was founded on, but merely because it allowed them an excuse to partake in some type of behavior that would ordinarily not be accepted. Like wanting to join the Jamaican religion that is based on smoking pot just because the person wanted an excuse for staying high, not because they believed any other teachings of the religion.

Does that group have any responsibility to accept that person or allow them to continue to attend and disregard all their basic believes? If you answered no, then why do we as members of the SM lifestyle feel so compelled to not only allow those who have no respect for our traditions continue to stay and go so far as to try and make it comfortable for them at the expense of those who take their enjoyment from following those traditions?

Just a thought....Making room for all works both ways.

bob h
 

Protocols

There are not many, who know about protocols, that come to the functions in the community. we had a PEP topic recently on Protocols and there was only about a handful of people there that i thought actually knew what protocol was, but don't practice it. To put it simply, the community has fallen by the wayside in its practice of protocols, and the ones that do know and practice it rarely come out into the community anymore. so, what we have is a new community of people that don't know what protocol is and only a few that know but don't practice it in public.

One of the biggest problems the community has had in the past is that there were several cases of misunderstandings over protocols causing big problems among various community members. Usually what happened would be a couple, not normally known for practicing protocol, would suddenly decide one night that they would start, didn't let anyone know of the change and would become upset when someone mistakenly violated one of the couple's new method.

Just as a reminder, if you are interested in observing public behavior protocols, please remember that there are very few, if any, universal rules and that until everyone becomes accustomed to yours, inadvertent mistakes are going to be made and the situation can be easily rectified by simply informing others as to what protocols you follow. Once your protocols are generally known, and they are obviously being disrespected - there have been some who became very obnoxious about not believing in any protocols for anybody and made a point of violating every one they could - then there is reason to be angered.

One of the most cited problems in the community today is the lack of respect for each other. Whether you personally care to follow a set style of protocol or not is your decision but there is no excuse for not respecting the wishes of those who do.

Ironically i received an email today responding to an article i wrote over a year ago on this subject. Thought it might be of interest to some of you also. Since i have not asked the person about posting it i have removed references to names or places but will say it is not from anyone locally and in fact was from a location on the western side of the US:

"RE: Who's Way is Right? by bob harris, I found this article to be very insightful.  You wrote:"

What does matter is that you respect and honor whatever decision the other individuals of the community have made for themselves.

"As a couple of the old-timers, we have been saddened by the one-way tolerance that we see today. We are asked to tolerate the new-age bdsm concepts but respect for our old ways is absolutely not there. So we are mostly back underground.  You also wrote:"

What seems odd to me is that for several years now, we have pushed the concept of celebrating our diversity. Accepting all people into our community regardless of gender, race, sexual preference and especially fetish preference. Yet we find so many frictions occurring between various factions of our community because of those diversities. Celebrating our diversity seems to have somehow become warped into being celebrate our diversity as long as you agree that our way is the standard, the only true and correct way, which everyone should strive to follow.

"Well, this is where things began getting mucked up in our opinion. (Note: Master's beginnings were in a biker group in Maine in the late sixties so may be similar to your own.) Back then when one belonged to a group, that group had a very specific structure and protocols and if you didn't like it you were asked to leave, tossed out, whatever was appropriate for the situation. Everyone knew the rules, what was expected, etc. Nowadays NO ONE knows the rules, there is no structure and no protocol. Everything is individualized and we are to just tolerate, be non-judgmental, accept everyone."

"D/s'ers, S&M'ers, fetishists and all are plopped in a heap and told to accept each other and get a long. Where is the common sense in that? Does it really come as any great surprise when the friction happens in these groups?"

"Of course, there is no "right way"...there never has been. But when the groups came together there wasn't all the bickering that goes on nowadays because everyone respected each other's ways. Nowadays it's a pissing contest."

"We are affiliated with only one organization that we attend occasionally just to socialize a bit . We go there, don't much like most of what we see there, but it's their organization and we don't interfere. We consider ourselves "guests" and conduct ourselves accordingly. Other than that we get together with a small group of friends who's philosophies of life more closely match our own. It doesn't mean they are exactly the same, but we have respect for each other and that goes a long way in our world. We are two who are very discouraged with the BDSM of today, but we are content in our own little world and happy to have found one another."

"I thank you for this article and wish you and yours well."

As a post-script, i find it very upsetting whenever i hear a story like this where long-term members of the SM community feel unwelcome today. These are our teachers, our mentors, our continuity with our history. We should be encouraging them to remain active with us, not driving them away.

It all goes back to, as Aretha put it,  R-E-S-P-E-C-T !!

bob h
 

Since the people we refer to as "Old Guard" were gay men, and during that time would not admit anyone but other qualified gay men into their ranks. Why is this exclusionary tradition not held in the same reverence as certain other traditions, like the established protocols?

i'm not sure i understand what you are trying to say here but just for general reference would like to clear up a couple points.

First, when the gay leather bike clubs first began organizing it was common social practice for social clubs and organizations to be limiting in who was accepted for membership. In the 1940's when the clubs formed and well into the 1950's and 60's it was totally acceptable to have organizations that were only open to white adult males. Women and people of color were not admitted to organizations such as the Elks, Masons, Lions etc. Even the Boy Scouts were not racially mixed and girls were content with the Girl Scouts. It was not a question of being "exclusionary" it was simply the social customs of the times. As other organizations opened up during the social upheavals of the late 60's and early 70's, so did the gay leather clubs and women and people of color did begin to train and learn the now labelled "Old Guard" protocol styles.

Second, as recently as four years ago here in Atlanta, there were two main established protocols. The Old Guard and The Victorian a more service oriented protocol style based on the protocols of European royalty. Although very different in origin and style, the basics of proper public behavior of both styles were very similar and compatible and as pointed out, were basically good common (at the time) manners and etiquette. For many members of this lifestyle, continuing the traditions of protocols is very much a part of their lives inside and out of the lifestyle settings and greatly enhance the enjoyment they receive from being a part of the lifestyle. It helps initiate and maintain head space for both the Dom and the sub as well as maintaining that special mystic about the lifestyle that has surrounded it, helped define it and separate it as a special time apart from everyday life. Without it, time spent in social activities with other members of the lifestyle loose that feeling of being something special in their lives.

To insist that all follow one set protocol or another is not feasible or needed. But i personally do not feel that it is asking too much that as a community, we insist that at public gatherings, especially when play is concerned, that basic common courtesies and RESPECT be observed by ALL.

bob h
 

For those who have no concept of what I am speaking, this would entail the following (and I am certain that I will receive a lot of flaming on this one):  1. When seeing a leashed submissive: Do not approach, talk to, touch, hug, converse, or otherwise engage the submissive without the expressed permission of the Dominant.   2. When observing a submissive engaged in the process of his/her duties: Do not approach, talk to, touch, hug, converse, or otherwise dissuade the submissive in the commission of those duties without the expressed permission of the Dominant.   3. If approached by a leashed submissive in the commission of his/her duties, feel free allow or dismiss the submissive's actions, as is Your right. It is the submissive's duty to obey his/her Dominant, but not at the expense of another Dominant's domain.

Hopefully You won't receive any flaming Sir, but if someone does they would just be showing their ignorance. i would add though that it is not only applies to leashed submissives, but to any submissive who is in service that night to a specific Dominant with or without a collar, leash or any other sign. Of course any unwelcome touching of anyone Dom or sub, attached or single is inappropriate

i agree that the influx of cyber players has enhanced many of the public problems because of the great number of people involved but i don't feel they are totally to blame. The proliferation and accessibility of BDSM fictional fantasy where subs are still usually depicted as throw-away play things has done a lot of damage as well by reinforcing misconceptions. But most coming from either of these avenues are for the most part very willing to cooperate once their mistake has been pointed out since most come with a true sense of wanting to learn and become involved in the community. Where i see the biggest problem is from the ones who drift in straight from one of those places like Venus where people engage is activities where such behavior is the norm, especially approaching everyone as if we all are looking for additional sex partners (i'm trying very hard not to just come out and say the swingers groups because of the reaction that word always causes, so i won't specifically mention swingers)....But before anyone gets upset, i am not putting down and trying to cast a negative light on swinging but i have observed that the vast majority of the bigger problem childs over the past few years, especially repeat offenders, come from such groups. Who knows, they may have been kicked out of those clubs also.

However, no matter what the source, the problems will not go away until we ALL get involved in the cleaning process.

bob h
 

Old Guard - A friend of mine is looking for published literature about the "Old Guard" ways of the lifestyle. I would love to know what there is out there if you could all please forward what you have stored in your hideaways.

Other than articles in various magazines such as Drummer or International Leatherman (Issue 31 from Dec 2000 has an excellent article by Joseph Bean called "Old Guard? If You Say So") you will not find much printed about Old Guard tradition since part of that tradition was not to write about it. The Silver Jubilee Edition of The Leatherman's Handbook by Larry Townsend is about the closest book you will find but you have to be careful since much of what is presented is fantasy headspace and was not the way real life was or is.

There is also a book called Leather-Folk: Radical Sex, People, Politics and Practice edited by Mark Thompson. One section of this book is a decade by decade reflection of leather life from the 1940's through 1990. The chapter on the 1950's ...One among many: The seduction and training of a leatherman by Thom Magister is probably the most sensitive, accurate and beautiful portrayal of Old Guard life that you will find. The chapter on the 1970's--The Catacombs: A temple of the Butthole by Gayle Rubin is also excellent and chronicles the beginnings of women entering the Old Guard tradition. Leather-Fold was originally published in 1991 and may be somewhat hard to find. Both it and Leatherman's Handbook are available in The Sanctuary Lending Library for Sanctuary Members.

bob h
 

Dungeon Dress

i personally do not feel that it is asking too much for those attending play parties or other events either at PEP or The Sanctuary, to dress in a manner that helps create the atmosphere and headspace of any dungeon space. A large part of dungeon play is based on the fantasy/escape aspects of the lifestyle. It is those aspects that make this lifestyle special, enjoyable and fun. It is the same as setting and honoring standard dungeon etiquettes. They are set so everyone can enjoy the space, fulfill their own fantasies.

It is no different than a formal restaurant requiring specific type dress for all patrons. They are trying to create an atmosphere comfortable for the type of clientele they wish to draw or to make their restaurant stand apart in both the quality of food, quality of service, quality of surroundings making it a place that is sure to provide a lasting memory of a special evening.

The Sanctuary dress code is based on Old Guard which is based on the military and on the types of dress and behaviors being practiced in the European protocols at the time of WWII at experienced by the soldiers who would return from the war and start the biker clubs leading to what we call the Old Guard. Being composed of men, the uniforms from military and leather from both civilian and military motorcycle protective wear became the stronger influences for dress.

However, the dress code we publish has been expanded from that basis to include types of clothing that most people can usually adhere to without buying it specifically for dungeon use but still maintaining the dungeon atmosphere i "any other type wear indicative of your station"

But even disregarding any of that, to require that persons attending wear something that does not scream bum or slut, that may not say "yes i respect the traditions of this lifestyle and their enhancement of any scene situation" but at least doesn't say "I don't give a flying crap about this stuff as a lifestyle and I don't give a flying crap about what it means to anybody else either." is asking too much. Just because it's nothing special to you don't disrespect the idea that it is for others.

bob h
 

Is there not a custom in which it is okay to take control of another's submissive? I refer to when a submissive is wearing a collar with a leash dangling - i.e. without being held by their hands or another's, placed in a pocket, or blouse or teeth.  Basically totally unsecured?  I ask this not to suggest I have or would do this, only that I seem to recall hearing this particular custom/tradition.

There was a time when a sub walking around with their own collar and leash would be up for grabs by anyone ---- BUT ----- is it was grabbed it was done for education of the sub NOT the pleasure of the Dom. Unfortunately today it would most likely be that an unknowing "dom" would grab the leash thinking it was ok and the unknowing "sub" wouldn't be knowledgeable enough to know that they were putting themselves into a very dangerous position.

Hopefully in such a situation the sub will be grabbed by someone who is old school enough to recognize that the sub is clueless. If lucky the sub will be taken and have the shit scared out of them before being told of how inappropriate they are and being released hopefully the wiser and without the collar and leash.

bob h
 

I prefer the phrase 'consensual slavery'. It may appear to be a contradiction but then much of what we do is an apparent contradiction, pain/pleasure, fantasy rape. It is all in the headspace we want and need... and to accomplish the mental 'trick', it may require an insistence within them that they are REAL slaves. Too debate it with them too much endangers the ability to pull it off in their heads. If one needs to feel deep inside that they are a slave, then so be it and it is no one else's business... even if it takes them too close to the 'flame' in someone's opinion. Whose life is it anyway?

i have to agree with this. Except let's please not come up with any new terms to describe it. The lifestyle has gotten "vanillaized" enough.

Being a slave is a mindset and definitely a part of headspace. It is unfortunate that the term "slave" also has such a negative connotation. We are much more aware of the negative term "slave" before coming into the lifestyle than we are of the positive term "slave" used in this lifestyle so naturally it is sometimes very difficult to get across the concept that to be a slave in a BDSM relationship is an act of absolute trust, honor, commitment and most of all, a very deep love.

Traditionally the term "slave" was used in the lifestyle to designate a collared submissive. There were only two choices of terms for subs. Uncollared, and thus referred to in the general "submissive" or collard and as such automatically a "slave". The term "boy" was used as an affectionate term for a "slave" and used only by the slave's Master. If a collared slave became uncollared again for some reason, he would revert back to being a "submissive". Only a highly skilled, highly respected "slave" would retain that title if uncollared but they would not refer to themselves as such.

Because of the very same reasons that still surround the term "slave", as the sexual revolution of the sixties brought more people into the lifestyle, the term Daddy started being used to replace those who were uncomfortable with the term "Master" and "boy" took on a connotation of the less structured Daddy/boy relationship with fewer protocols required for the "boy" and a more playful persona presented.

Once you get past the semantics problem with the word "slave" and understand the positive aspects and respect afforded to it in a BDSM context, it becomes a whole lot easier to understand. As i have said many times, i would never have thought of myself as a slave if the fantasy notions commonly portrayed of the mindless robot, totally controlled and the rest of the BS was actually true. i am a slave by choice because is Sir's traditions, accepting a lifetime contract and collar, and accepting the term "slave", are the highest ways for me to say to Him, i love You.

Neither completely prevent that but they do create legal presumptions that help protect both parties and I would recommend against having a BDSM relationship without a contract, speaking purely as a lawyer.

Have to agree again....A thoroughly negotiated contract is also a great help in keeping the relationship on track especially if it contains the desires, goals, expectations and limits of both parties. It can be useful as a reference tool and a benchmark.

i am also charged by all male play. i find it erotically intense. perhaps it is a bit of jealousy?..*grin*. although it is probably the historical years of experience that is involved in male male play that i like.

Now i understand more why so many women in the lifestyle like to play in male headspace....it's that old penis envy thing again........ONLY KIDDING------

(Proud to be a 24/7 slave, 36 hours a day, 8 days a week!)

bob h
 

Wax Play - What concerned Me was the colored candles that were being used.  I have not used colored candles in decades, because of the inherent danger of using a product that probably has plastic polymers to bind the colors..... The heat that is needed to generate a melting of these products is higher than others, and even when they are held higher to allow more space-drop for the dripping wax to cool, they are still capable of burning human flesh...

There are many sources of colored candles available today that are safe for play. Even most commercial candles are fine as long as they do not contain metal wicks (mostly outlawed now) or beeswax.

With commercial candles you do need to watch some of the darker colors although we have used both commercially made black and red, generally two of the hotter colors, without any sort of problems especially burns. As with all candles, the best way to avoid problems is to test a few drops from various heights before using them in a scene. Of course depending on skin sensitivity, what is fine for one may be harmful to another.

On a side note, if there are ever questions about a certain type or style of play at a public function, please bring it up them to a staff person or dungeon monitor. If what is being done is safe they can tell you, explain why and answer any other questions. If not, the scene can be stopped. Questioning after the fact helps lead to rumors of someone being unfairly labelled an unsafe player.

bob h
 

First off let me say that your Master is completely correct.  The ritual of third person speech is a totally online protocol and took me months to get to used to...

Sir, actually the use of third person speech, both in written and verbal communications by submissives has been a standard of training since the beginning of the "Old Guard" style and i believe is also used extensively in many of the traditional European styles as well. It is not as common to hear third person at public venues today having been lost, like so many other traditions, because of the negativity in the reactions of those unfamiliar with it.

bob h
 

Getting Speakers For Events - As our fund grows there will be a certain amount of pressure to start spending it, which can lead to any speaker, just find somebody syndrome, ultimately lowering the quality of people we get. Also, if you simply call someone and say, 'We want to bring you, how much do you cost?', it's a business deal and you'll get their usual price. If you say, 'We want to bring you, how much money would we have to raise?', they may well take pity on us and say, 'Well, I usually get airfare, hotel, and a speakers fee, but I haven't been to Atlanta in a long time, so if you guys can get me a plane ticket, somebody to put me up, and show me good time, I won't worry about the speakers fee'. Just my thoughts.

First of all, there are only two people in the leather community who charge a "speakers fee". They are Guy Baldwin and Patrick Califia. Anyone interested in hearing either of them can go to one of the many larger national events or possibly one local as both have been to SE Leatherfest. Everyone else are dedicated teachers who ask that groups such as this one help in whatever way possible with either travel, lodging or both. Usually these costs can be kept down by using the many speakers from the east side of the nation and only occasionally bringing in a west coast personality and by possibly working a deal with a hotel for a cheaper volume rate discount for lodging. With the number of excellent speakers within driving distance of Atlanta and within east coast areas that frequently have special fare deals available from the airlines, there would neither be any reason to be concerned about getting "just anybody" nor a great need to bring in speakers from long distances with high flight fares.

Second, as a frequent speaker throughout the Southeast and nationally, to be asked "how much do you cost" i would find highly insulting. Yes, it would be wonderful to receive a speakers fee each time Sir and i traveled someplace to give a seminar, but we realize, as do the others who also frequently are asked to speak, that most groups, especially groups such as this one which is centered around an e-mail list or the many munch groups springing up that are actually trying to do some education besides just eating, do not have the money to provide a room at the most expensive hotel (Red Roofs work fine), provide gourmet meals or first class flight accommodations. However they do have a thirst for knowledge, the politeness to listen attentively when the guest is speaking and showing their appreciation by saying thanks, you helped answer some of my questions (unfortunately these courtesies are hard to come by most the time in Atlanta). This not only makes the speaker glad to have come but makes them more than willing to return asking only for the basics in lodging, meals and travel. Yes, it is extremely nice and greatly appreciated if there is a small kitty that can also be given for food, gas, drinks along the way to and from the location. Other small touches that are relatively inexpensive but very appreciated is perhaps a basket of goodies or fruit or a modest bouquet of fresh flowers waiting in the room upon their arrival. Since this is not an overly large group, $5.00 is not a large amount, and NO, i certainly do not have a great deal - usually none- of extra spending cash either, but $5.00 is just not a huge amount but would feasible be enough when added together to provide the basics for getting out of town speakers.

Now on the other side. i am also well, very well aware of how much can be spent in a year by those who are willing and are dedicated to sharing themselves, their experiences and knowledge to those newer in the community. Even with the majority of our travel being by car, as much out of necessity as close distance, for the past several years, basically since being SE Drummer in '96, i have personally spent close to $10,000 per year out of my pocket from the salary i get for my regular work . Some of that includes the perhaps two or three events per year we attend just to be there not for giving any presentations, but the majority is for costs not covered to go to the events, meetings, munches etc that we have been asked to present at, and of course, that does include expenses for both Sir and myself. Only a bare minimum of any of our travel expenses are paid for out of Sanctuary funds and only then because i'm tapped out. $5.00 once a month seems pretty damn cheap comparatively.

As for the $15.00 or $20.00 regular admission charge to a class and play party, i challenge you to find any other area in the country with public play facilities that have as cheap of admission, and usually they are providing a whole lot less. Yet they are constantly crowded. When was the last time you went out to dinner for that price? How about a movie or a Saturday night at a bar?. Did you complain about those prices the whole night? At the Olympus contest Saturday or any other locally held contest, basket auctions for the title-holders travel fund are lucky if a basket breaks the $100.00 mark. Even for very large ones with a great deal of merchandise. Many local fund raisers that are held here barely cover expenses much less make money. Only a small minority of this community are willing to come out for a fund raiser and only a few of those actually spend any money to help the cause. Look at the pitiful amounts that most of the auction items, including the spontaneous ones Saturday night brought. $30, $40. This is supposed to help four title holders, not just two, but four contestants go to Chicago in February for the national contest plus help cover other expenses throughout the year? Then look at a place like San Francisco. It is not unusual for them to have several fund raiser events happening at the same time on the same night, often on weeknights or weekend afternoons. All are packed, several thousands of dollars are raised and the people move from one to the next supporting them all. Yes they have larger salaries there. They also have equally if not higher expenses percentage-wise than salaries but they are continually willing to help support local causes without complaint.

If you want this community to continuing growing, to be able to offer you more choices of social and play opportunities and lifestyle businesses to provide the means to enjoy those venues then it's time to stop being so damn cheap and start supporting the clubs, groups and businesses and events that are here now. Be thankful that we have a political atmosphere that allows us to be fairly open without worry of repercussions - as long as were are not blatantly ignoring basic regulations or decencies. Support those in the community who work to keep it that way instead of bitching and moaning every time someone asks for a bit more help. It's all about priorities and it's about f****** time this community starts placing a priority on supporting and preserving this community instead of wanting it all and constantly complaining about a few dollars or slight inconvenience and bad-mouthing anyone who puts themselves on the line and actually tries to do something positive to help all of us.

Sorry for the blast. Just reached my limit.

bob h
 

If you are submissive, do you believe that being in strict protocol helps you to feel at peace, is it a comfort, or a struggle for you to maintain? Do you feel it is helpful to know exactly what is expected of you, or does it feel too restrictive to you at times?

Obviously in Sir and my relationship, having established protocols is important to both of us. They not only help define the relationship but define who were are as well. Yes, they are often difficult to maintain. Often times it would be easier to ignore them than to adhere but to ignore them, or only practice them when it's not a bit of an inconvenience takes away too much of what we consider to be a very special aspect of our lives together. External pressures and situations have caused us to adjust and soften many of the protocols we had hoped could be maintained when we first got together, and are saddened in that we cannot follow the traditions of our culture as fully as we would like. Pressures not only from general society but from within the SM community as well. Preferring not to be the one who causes further deterioration gives me the motivation and resolve to follow the best i can during those times when they are somewhat of a struggle to maintain.

As far as bringing a peace or comfort, i don't really look at them that way. We do not use the protocols as a means of defining my entire role within the relationship. In fact the majority of day to day decisions and situations fall way outside of any aspect of life addressed by the protocols and it is much more important that i have the freedom to be able to handle them as i best see fit than to be restricted by rules designed to govern every aspect of my existence removing me from ever having to make a decision on my own. Actually our protocols are designed to do just the opposite. If you follow the philosophy that the submissive's role is to function in a way that makes life easier for the Dominant, it would be counter-productive to then limit the submissive in their ability to handle diverse situations as they arise. My pleasure, peace of mind and comfort comes in knowing that i have the intelligence and abilities to foresee possible problems and can act to hopefully prevent them from happening or at least keeping them to a minor level instead of a something major, and accomplish that before He is even aware the problem ever existed. i take pride in knowing that i generally know when and what He will need something and have it ready for Him before He knows He wants it and without waiting for Him to request it.

My personal feeling is that if a Dominant has to establish "firm guidelines" for the subs every movement to aid them in the performance of their duties, then that submissive is doing a disservice not a service. Being submissive does not and should not ever be equated with being a mindless robot whether in a loosely structured relationship with no apparent protocols or the most highly trained, disciplined slave whose every movement and specified duty is completely protocol specific for even that slave, as governed as they may appear when in the presence of the Master, needs a high degree of intellect and self-assuredness to remain within their established parameters and still get the job done in what would appear to be effortless manner.

If you are submissive, do you see a need for rituals, and why?  Do you feel that some rituals feel uncomfortable to you, or do they feel natural?

i view rituals in much the same way. They tie us to our heritage, create the atmosphere in which we live and enhance our mental ability to remain within the structures of an established D/s relationship. If they do not come naturally or require you to do something which is forced or in opposition to your actual feelings or beliefs, then obviously there was not enough pre-relationship communication and negotiation of expectations done prior to making the decision to enter into a D/s relationship giving the Dominant the knowledge required to realize that what is being asked of you is something that causes you personal turmoil or discomfort. Communication is the key here. Before, during and after the formal collaring. The sub must respect themselves enough so as not to put themselves in a situation where their actions are inconsistent with their personal philosophy of life or of what constitutes their perception of what makes the differences between right and wrong. Rituals should be a part of what enhances the relationship, not what distracts from it -----No one in any type of relationship should be expected or required to abandon their basic beliefs or perform actions in opposition to them. But, it is the subs responsibility to let the Dominant know that it is. Otherwise a sub has only themselves to blame if such a situation exists.

As with protocols if the Dominant has to incorporate rituals in order for the submissive to remain in headspace or accept themselves and their position, then perhaps the submissive should not be in that particular type relationship. Their acceptance of their submission should have been established within themselves long before entering into a long term relationship. Service that must be forced, instead of being performed out of an innate need to serve will never be satisfying to either the submissive or the Dominant. i don't believe you can "make" a submissive anymore than you can "make" a Dominant. It must be there from birth.

"If you are submissive, do you see a need for discipline, and is corporal punishment an acceptable form. Do you ever ask for discipline be used with you to aid in personal growth? ( To break a bad habit, to achieve a goal) Do you feel it would be a good idea to use discipline for this purpose?"

There is a great need for self-discipline for a submissive. They must be in order to effectively perform their duties. But i see absolutely no need for punishments of any kind, especially corporal for any reason within a relationship. To often punishment is seen as a needed part of a D/s relationship. What that tells me is that the sub really isn't a sub, does not have the happiness of their Dom as their main goal or else such measures would not be needed in order for them to be willing to do the service requested in a manner pleasing to the Dominant. If punishment has to be used to make an adult learn then i have to question if that person is really an adult first and second if there putting up with having to do service is only because it's a way for them to get played with the way they want. If some form of SM play is used as punishment often the sub will "disobey" intentionally just to get play. i think there is a great misunderstanding over the word punishment in our lifestyle. Punishment when associated with inflicting physical pain is simply a synonym for pleasure. It is not a corrective measure. Again, submissive does not mean stupid or childish just as it doesn't mean mindless. It requires a great deal of mental ability, maturity and self confidence. A good sub will punish themselves much harder than any Dom can if they make a mistake that causes their Dominant to be embarrassed publicly or disappointed in the subs actions. The hurt and disappointment in their Dom's eyes is more punishment than anything that can be inflicted in a dungeon.

In relation to personal growth, i feel protocols and rituals are great tools to use as benchmarks in the performance of your service. They provide goals to work towards, to learn them and practice them in a way that becomes effortless and second nature. They help you learn the wants and needs, likes and dislikes of the Dominant and provide the means to provide avenues which allow you to show to them your dedication and love for them by providing the highest standard of service you possibly can, and providing a source of pride and builder of confidence for the sub.

Does the list feel it is okay for a slave to, for a good purpose, bully their Masters a little bit, in order to take proper care of them? How do you do that without overstepping your place, and how would the Dominants on the list feel about that, and prefer to see that achieved. Or does a slave have that right.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! Otherwise you are not doing you job. Just my opinion.

bob h
 

Is there a protocol to cover one of those instances where an unscrupulous Dom is counting on using "protocol" to his advantage. Strictly speaking there is no protocol that addresses a subs response to an improper manipulative request by a Dom.

Actually there is a protocol for this it's called saying NO. A sub always has the right to say no to any request that compromises them.

Part of negotiations for a scene a definitely part of any contract should be the ability of the sub to call "time out", a time when all pretenses are dropped, the two speak freely with each other in discussing the situation. If a Dom does not respect the sub's request not to continue or continues to pressure it's time to say bye bye.

bob h
 

boy bob's Essays and Poetry 

Aside from the lasting impression that boy bob has left on all of our lives, perhaps his final blessing on our community was the  many well written articles (and his inspirational poem, The Lock) that he has left as a legacy to us all.  His intelligent and knowledgeable  writings will continue to help those that find their way into our lifestyle. 

Let's start off with some poetry, because the beauty that was found in boy bob can be found here most of all.  Without a doubt, one of the most beautiful and moving poems ever written about our lifestyle, "The Lock" is performance artistry at it's finest and an inspiration to us all.  Those that were fortunate enough to see this performed by Master Doug and boy bob will never forget the experience.  While his poem has been displayed in many places, it is on The Sanctuary's own website that we find boy bob's personal commentary describing for us a bit of the history surrounding his writing of this poem that has inspired so many in our lifestyle.

Below are links to boy bob's many writings reaching back over three years: